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The obvious question.... With many options for an answer. As I understant it, there are 5 choices-
1: NATURAL EARTH ENERGY. Meaning, energy coming UP out of the Earth, impacting the medium and continuing outwards.
2: UFO/Another world. The classic mental response to this mystery. Either like the Australian "Tully Saucer Nests"( a actual landing imprint), or some how beamed from ABOVE ( this means intentionally... from a ship, or from a distant planet in the form of unknown radio waves).
3: WEATHER. Maybe we have wind patterns causing amazing geometry( This one is a bit "out there", I know, and personally not my pic.)
4: GOVERNMENT'S. They've been known to pull some tricks on the masses before. Why not use some acupuncture on the planet for some reason? (Now, make no mistake as to the governments interest in sacred symbols. They are not fools. There is true power in the use of complex math and geometric mapping.)
5: All Manmade. I must be fare.... It is a valid theory. There have been times that I have looked at a glyph and thought wow! That could not have been done by humans...then look at the field report, and nothing to indicate a mystery other than the design itself. None of the 8 criteria established by BLT. (learn here- www.bltresearch.com/plantab.html
What say you?
Are there any more theories you have?
1: NATURAL EARTH ENERGY. Meaning, energy coming UP out of the Earth, impacting the medium and continuing outwards.
2: UFO/Another world. The classic mental response to this mystery. Either like the Australian "Tully Saucer Nests"( a actual landing imprint), or some how beamed from ABOVE ( this means intentionally... from a ship, or from a distant planet in the form of unknown radio waves).
3: WEATHER. Maybe we have wind patterns causing amazing geometry( This one is a bit "out there", I know, and personally not my pic.)
4: GOVERNMENT'S. They've been known to pull some tricks on the masses before. Why not use some acupuncture on the planet for some reason? (Now, make no mistake as to the governments interest in sacred symbols. They are not fools. There is true power in the use of complex math and geometric mapping.)
5: All Manmade. I must be fare.... It is a valid theory. There have been times that I have looked at a glyph and thought wow! That could not have been done by humans...then look at the field report, and nothing to indicate a mystery other than the design itself. None of the 8 criteria established by BLT. (learn here- www.bltresearch.com/plantab.html
What say you?
Are there any more theories you have?
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Re: What IS it?
12/14Well, Stephen Hawking writes in A Brief History of Time:
"We could still imagine that there is a set of laws that determines events completely for some supernatural being, who could observe the present state of the universe without disturbing it. However, such models of the universe are not of much interest to us mortals. It seems better to employ the principle known as Occam's razor and cut out all the features of the theory that cannot be observed."
And
Isaac Newton stated the rule: "We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances."
The most useful statement of the principle for scientists is
"when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better."
~So, after some study into the Occams Razor theology, I find no more answers. Because "the simpler one is the better" idea is conjecture. 10 different people will have 10 different views on the definition of a simple answer....
Thanks for you feedback! -
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Re: What IS it?
12/14>From www.luisprada.com/Protected...ircles.htm
In 1999, philanthropist Laurance Rockefeller made possible the most definitive -- and most revealing -- study to date. The BLT Research Team collected hundreds of plant and soil samples from a seven-circle barley formation in Edmonton, Canada. The plants had both elongated nodes and expulsion cavities, and the soils contained the peculiar iron spheres, indicating a genuine formation. The controls showed none of these changes.
Mineralogist Sampath Iyengar, of the Technology of Materials Laboratory, in California, examined specific heat-sensitive clay minerals in these soils, using X-ray diffraction and a scanning electron microscope. He discovered an increase in the degree of crystallinity (the ordering of atoms) in the circle minerals, which statistician Ravi Raghavan determined was statistically significant at the 95 percent level of confidence.
"I was shocked," says Iyengar, a 30-year specialist in clay mineralogy. "These changes are normally found in sediments buried for thousands and thousands of years under rocks, affected by heat and pressure, and not in surface soils."
Also astounding was the direct correlation between the node-length increases in the plants and the increased crystallization in the soil minerals -- indicating a common energy source for both effects. Yet the scientists could not explain how this would be possible. The temperature required to alter soil crystallinity would be between 1,500 and 1,800 degrees F. This would destroy the plants.
Understanding the possible ramifications of these findings, Talbott sought the expertise of an emeritus professor of geology and mineralogy at Dartmouth College, Robert C. Reynolds Jr., who is former president of the Clay Minerals Society. He is regarded by his colleagues as the "best-known expert in the world" on X-ray diffraction analysis of clay minerals.
Reynolds determined that the BLT Team's data had been "obtained by competent personnel, using current equipment."
The intense heat required for the observed changes in crystallinity "would have incinerated any plant material present," he confirms in a statement for the Rockefeller report. "In short, I believe that our present knowledge provides no explanation."
Meteorologist James W. Deardorff, professor emeritus at the College of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences at Oregon State University, and previously a senior scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, states in a 2001 Physiologia Plantarum commentary that the variety, complexity and artistry of crop circles "represent the work of intelligence," and not a plasma vortex. "That is why the hoax hypothesis has been popularly advocated," he says.
However, he points out, the anomalous properties in plant stems thoroughly documented by Levengood and Talbott could not possibly have been implemented by hoaxers. Deardorff describes one 1986 British formation in which upper and lower layers of crop were intricately swirled and bent perpendicular to each other, in a fashion that "defies any explanation." -
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Re: What IS it?
12/14Couldn't micro wave produce high heat in one material next to another unaffected material based on their different consistency and structure?
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Re: What IS it?
12/15>~So, after some study into the Occams Razor theology, I find no more answers. Because "the simpler one is the better" idea is conjecture. 10 different people will have 10 different views on the definition of a simple answer....
Thanks for you feedback! <
This is a classic over simplification of Occams Razor. It actually states that the explanation that makes the fewest asumpyions is more likely to be true.
In other words the fewer times that you have to say "What if?" to fit the evidence to the explanation the better.
Many of the features you sight as something that can't be faked have in fact been faked.
web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2002/crops.html
This is a good example of reverse engineering methods to fake features of a so called genuine crop circle.
This of course does not mean that these methods were used on all crop circles but that it can be done does discount the more exotic ideas. -
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Re: What IS it?
12/16Ok, joe... You hit upon a week spot in the CC hoaxers side. As I said before, I do know that there has been a wide variety of "relatively successful" glyphs created over the years produced by human hands. Both MIT and the Oregon state "FireFox"(which, by the way was created in BROAD DAYLIGHT-www.youtube.com/watch formations were widely publicized.
With the MIT's, I have to refer you to the other side of the coin....www.bltresearch.com/published/mit.html
Basically NOT ONE of the five criteria established with the participants and Ms.Talbott was actually achieved!!!!!!!
To quote the article:
When Ms. Talbott left the MIT lecture hall that afternoon she left with the understanding that:
1. The TV producer would clearly present to the audience the 3 criteria outlined by Ms. Talbott as constituting the challenge to the MIT undergraduates;
2. The undergrads would be taken to a wheat-field somewhere here in the States by the TV producer, where they would attempt to make a crop circle under conditions which mimicked those in the Alton Barnes area of Wiltshire in mid-summer (i.e., where only about 4 hours of total darkness exist each night during the summer months and where crop circle enthusiasts from all over the world are out in the fields at night, watching for any sign of human activity);
3. The MIT undergrads would seriously attempt to reproduce the 3 plant/soil abnormalities outlined in the lecture hall, under the constraints above (4 hours of total darkness, no visual displays which would signify their presence);
4. That plant samples and controls from the students' crop formation would be provided to Ms. Talbott, as well as soil samples, for evaluation;
5. That Ms. Talbott's evaluation of the success or failure of the students' efforts would be included in the final TV show.
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As anyone who has seen the Discovery Channel production "Crop Circles: Mystery in the Fields" (first aired on Oct. 10, 2002) already knows, none of these 5 expectations (upon which Ms. Talbott's involvement was based) was met.
1. The 3 criteria outlined by Ms. Talbott were changed by the TV producer, with apical node elongation removed altogether as one of the criteria and with "design" of the crop circle inserted instead;
no clear, close-up photos of apical node elongation or expulsion cavities in plant stem nodes was shown; and, instead of even one enlarged photomicrographs of iron spheres adhereing to one another (due to being magnetized), a few video shots of a dish of what looked like ordinary rough-edged iron filings were briefly shown on-screen;
2. The TV announcer states that the students spent only 4 hours out in Jason Boeckmann's Careytown, Ohio wheat field. But Ms. Talbott was told by an observer who was present at the Ohio farm-field during the students' exercise that the students spent "3-4 hours during the night of June 20th" out in the field, and then "worked for several more hours the following day." In a "real" crop circle situation in England daytime work would almost certainly have been spotted.
But the most amusing aspect of the entire show was the apparent notion that the brilliant plume of fire produced by the students' "particle shooter" (in their attempt to produce the tiny magnetized iron spheres in the soil) would have gone unnoticed in the darkness of the Wiltshire countryside. [Not to mention the extreme likelihood of subsequent fire which, in the M.I.T. exercise, had necessitated the presence of fire-trucks (off-camera of course) at the Ohio farm.] The fact that the M.I.T. exercise included this wonderfully dramatic TV moment -- as if it could possibly represent the manner in which all crop circles are created -- is, at the very least, absurd.
I cannot believe that these M.I.T. students actually accept such an idea, in spite of what they say on-camera. It appears to me that they--at such a young age--have already lost their intellectual independence, pliantly yielding to conventional wisdom.
3. Apparently because of the students' failure to reproduce the plant abnormalities listed as criteria, "design" of the crop circle was substituted instead, as being significant--it was this criterion which the TV announcer (and the 2 graduate-student "judges") presented as representing the overall "success" of the project--in spite of the fact that producer John Tindall and the 3 kids had all clearly heard (and the video team had taped) Ms. Talbott's crystal-clear statements to the contrary;
4. No plant samples or controls, and no soils, were ever provided to Ms. Talbott for evaluation;
5. No evaluation by Ms. Talbott was permitted and she was not allowed to contact the two graduate students utilized by the TV producer as "judges," once she had learned of their involvement. She was also denied any further contact with the three undergrads with whom she had met earlier in the summer.
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Re: What IS it?
12/20More steering of the cauldron at the UFO tribe- UFOs.tribe.net/thread/440...17f80aecca7 -
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Re: What IS it?
12/22Hey Cowboyangel: Your link is not view-able to non-friends..
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Re: What IS it?
01/266. Another theory to consider is that Crop Circle are made by human consciousness; sound and harmonics. -
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Re: What IS it?
01/26AhhhhYes! Another equally viable theory to ponder... altho, personally I cant help but to conger up images of mankind fluffing up his ego feathers at that one. We ARE potent light-beings, that is certain. And there has been numerous case-studies where a person or group of people have meditated on a specific image, PRIOR and we have seen a distinctly similar glyph appear shortly thereafter, sometimes the very next day with vast geographical distance from the group. These are well documented and investigated... Check out www.cropcirclesecrets.org/psychic2.html -
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Re: What IS it?
01/26Here's some more food for thought along this "theoretical" line of ponderance:
kumaras.org/id2.html
Althought the Crop Circle Project website has not been updated in several years, the basics are laid out in this Preface. I offer this to you now after a season of personal investigation of the CCP Anchorage Local Core Group. The results were astonounding! If you're interested, Jahvan, I can send you documentation of Crop Circle Project 2008 efforts which are not currently posted online. It is with humility, and caution, that I attest to the truth of therory #6, and have asked myself: if this is so, what then?
Please understand that I'm not advocating human consciousness as the one and only explanation for crop circles. As we are well aware, some crop circles have inded been "man made", and/or hoaxed. There could very well be other explanations too. After all, we do exist in a field of infinite potential. -
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Re: What IS it?
01/26Thank you Sila. I will be in touch- The link you posted in broken tho =( -
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Re: What IS it?
01/26Earlier in this thread I posed a question about microwave radiation...
Which no one deigned even a response to.
What if; it was evidence of the existence of a MAN MADE space based particle beam weapon that can be utilized at a low setting and overlayed with pattern projection. This would be a military appliance and the use of it to create crop circles would be nothing more than a grand experiment in disinformation and the study of its ripple effect in society and/or a way of testing the device ,like "tuning" a bow before hunting... -
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Re: What IS it?
04/02Stephen- >>What if; it was evidence of the existence of a MAN MADE space based particle beam weapon that can be utilized at a low setting and overlayed with pattern projection. This would be a military appliance and the use of it to create crop circles would be nothing more than a grand experiment in disinformation and the study of its ripple effect in society and/or a way of testing the device<<
~I think that it's a viable theory, but there are at least two facts in opposition to it being a reality.... 1. This "mowing devil" illustration from 1678 (have a look here) www.swirlednews.com/article.asp ... which many believe to be "One of the most prominent pieces of evidence put forward to support the notion that crop circles have been appearing in at least some form for hundreds of years".... and 2. the simple (albeit personal) view that the designs and geometry shown in the fields are unanimously benign in nature. Where as the "MAN MADE space based particle beam weapon" is clearly not. The glyphs appearing across the globe are activating, not disintegrating. The seed samples are showing INCREASED growth when the plants are affected.("when crop circles occur in mature plants with fully formed seeds, these seeds often exhibit a statistically significant massive increase in growth rate and vigor, with growth-rate up to five times the rate of the control seeds. Further, these seedlings can tolerate extreme stress (lack of water and/or light) for considerable periods of time without apparent harm." -www.bltresearch.com/plantab.html)
As a side note, a friend brought up an interesting point a while ago. The patterns on the ground are not bent, or oblong at all. That is to say that if it was to come from the "sky downwards", due to the speed of our rotating earth, one would come to the realization that the pattern most likely would be "stretched out" across the ground as it impacted the field. This got me thinking of the reality of how the land is not a smooth, flat plain. The countryside is full of hills and valleys... no matter how slight, even a one foot rise or dip in elevation would have to be accounted for in the laying down of the pattern for it to be completed with any kind of accuracy.... like these www.crystalinks.com/cropcircles2000.html -
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Re: What IS it?
04/06Interesting points Jahvan,
The old engraving of the "mow devil"though interesting, is hardly a proof of anything.It seems quite a stretch to me to apply it to the crop circle investigation.
I think it's important to retain a critical view.
There is so much desire for this phenomenon to be extra-terrestrial in origin,I worry that it causes many to suspend critical faculties...
Even the view of crop circles being benign or "activating"does not necessarily mean the source is...
I mean the Pied Piper effect could as easily be employed here.Humans are by their very nature inquisitive,and often naive.Just saying.
Even the notion that these shapes are created by higher intelligence has room for speculation.
The METHOD by which they are imprinted on the earth's surface has thus defied our understanding,I certainly validate that.
But the patterns and images could as easily have been the results of an advanced class of Sacred Geometers of terrestrial origin IMHO. -
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Re: What IS it?
04/06Correct you are on several points.... most esp. with the critical view that THERE IS NO REASON TO BELEVE THEY ARE OF EXTRATERRESTRIAL OREGIN. I'm equally boggled why they have been grouped together as they have, maybe the "Australian saucer nests" are to blame back in 1966 www.ufoevidence.org/Cases/CaseView.asp
Or the disinformation campaign waged by international press (like the FireFox Crop circle) but it is interesting how the tow are pared in the human psyche... When I first looked into them, I was attending the "Natural Earth Energy" school of thought. I will be quick to sight the stark evidence we DO HAVE, that is the 1-SuperHeated nature of the plants causing node expulsion, www.bltresearch.com/xrd.html
2- Silica and other mineral particles fusing together www.execonn.com/cropcircle...otopes.html 3- time. the amount of time ti would take to create the glyphs is NOT congruent to (linear) reality. Do the math... if a team of 50 people tromping through the darkness for 4 hours with measuring tape were successful in not leaving a single footprint, the image would most likely be smaller than this one? ourworld.compuserve.com/homepa...rc1.htm
And all we need is one to have an unreplicable mystery.... =) -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: What IS it?
04/07I certainly don't think they're made by foot stomping etc.
I definitely believe it's some higher technology being utilized.And validate the plant anomalies as evidence.
I'm simply not convinced it's extra terrestrial in origin that's all.
I would LIKE it to be,but I personally need more conclusive evidence.
Because it's a mystery to us does not necessarily mean it's a supernatural occurrence or of extra terrestrial origin. -
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Re: What IS it?
04/07Stephen, Granted.... no reason to consider them originating from a extra terrestrial origin. Now that we have that cleared up, options abound!!! -
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Re: What IS it?
04/17I believe they are messages that come from a perspective of wholeness: from illuminated sovereign whole beings that are our elders trying to communicate what we are to help us wake up. They are coming from the universe of aware, whole, interconnected, energy consciousness.
No one has examined them from a VERTICAL perspective to understand the patterning, and so the message, which appears if they are looked at in their totality-not just the flat exquisite one-dimensional patterns on the ground- but the whole of the message, both horizontal and vertical and the moving in the whole creation. -
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Re: What IS it?
04/18Kathie, I agree with you on the WIDER perspective. I've often thought of them as actually being 3-D images impacting the earth, and only effectively leaving a 1-D image in the plant-matter medium of earth. Are there any graphic artists working on rendering the glyphs into their respective shapes in 3-D?
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Unsu...
Re: What IS it?
02/04The Crop Circle Music Wheel
by Joseph E. Mason www.greatdreams.com/numbers/...music.htm
i was looking for information correlating crop circles and medicine wheels ... and stumbled here ... it's kinda confusing to me ... but you might like it? -
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Re: What IS it?
02/06Ooooo- I likey! I just did a quick scroll down. The fantastic world of Cymatics (why is that word hi-lighted in red?) is almost overwhelmingly awesome. Have a look at the tribe- cymatics.tribe.net/
Sound=Form!
I look forward to re-search-ing the info...
Thank you for sharing! -
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Unsu...
Re: What IS it?
02/06thanks jahvan ... i'm in that tribe too! ... not too much gon on there .. but i am way into cymatics!
happy 1st friday!
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Re: What IS it?
04/21Multidimensional messages (not in a bottle).
I doubt such complex and meaningful geometrical forms appear just like that randomly...
One day we'll know I guess...